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Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

Last post 04-12-2010 4:15 PM by

 

Joe Sharpe.

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  • 03-01-2010 1:59 AM

    • MT
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-07-2009
    • Posts 1,474

    Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    The iconoclastic new book by the 37signals duo is not just bad but dangerous, says John Vincent.

    Read the whole article.

  • 03-01-2010 1:59 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Wow, you should really do a little more research than "a quick search on 37signals" before laying on such harsh criticism. Otherwise someone might thing you don't know what you're talking about. Had you read anything about the Bezos investment, like maybe their blog post about it \(http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/bezos_expeditions_invests_in_37signals.php), you'd have a little more insight into why it's not hypocritical to their core beliefs, and you'd even know a little something about their amazingly successful software products.

  • 03-01-2010 2:38 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    37 signals, Multimillion dollar SMALL company with fans and an audience, not just customers. Their doing something right. 37signals is like a much smaller version of Apple, same philosophy \(to a degree) and again, Apple, a BILLION dollar company with FANS not just customers, surely a *corporate* company with FANS is doing something right?, right?

  • 03-01-2010 2:39 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    They're*

  • 03-01-2010 5:43 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Mr. Vincent, their f*ck off flavored arrogance sucked you right in, hook, line and sinker. In my opinion, your critiques are weak and barely penetrate the surface; coming off as a guy who doesn't "get" the big picture.

  • 03-01-2010 5:45 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    The most attractive feature of "Ruby on Rails" is its "Simple and Straightforward approach " to the world. So we can expect a straightforward bussiness from whatever coming out from those people. But Still I m not getting why John you are this much angrier in your words :) Nice reading... :) Krishna

  • 03-01-2010 12:01 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    37signals should stick with making software? Their designs are based on the very ideas that are explained in Rework.

  • 03-01-2010 5:08 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Wow, lots of 37signals fans on the boards today! Just a few questions, in the interests of balance \(NB I haven't read the book) @Juan: John V actually quotes from that blog post, so I think he probably has seen it... But for those who haven't, perhaps you could explain how taking Bezos's money is compatible with their philosophy about not taking outside investment. On the basis of that post, it seems to be 'because it's Jeff'. But presumably other entrepreneurs could argue the same if they took outside investment? @Matt - what do you think is weak about the critiques, and why do you say that John doesn't get the big picture? @Jorn - don't quite follow - do you mean their software designs?

  • 03-01-2010 7:23 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Well, this was a particularly amusing post, for me. I'm looking forward to reading Rework next week, and replying to this.

  • 03-09-2010 9:58 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    lol ... John Vincent ... lol

  • 03-12-2010 9:28 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    In reply to James Taylor, what 37signals is saying is that VC funding shouldn't be the goal for a startup \(hence "Plan Z"). The goal should be generating profit. A lot of entrepreneurs think "If I get VC funding, it means my idea is good and I'll be successful!" That's BS. The real test is whether customers will actually pay for the product. 37signals aren't saying VC funding is always bad. It has its place, but it shouldn't be the focus of a startup. 37signals receives funding from Jeff Bezos in return for business advice. The main point here is that they were already a multi-million dollar business \(in actual profit) by the time Jeff Bezos came into the picture.

  • 03-29-2010 4:36 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

  • 03-29-2010 5:13 PM
    In reply to

    Re: RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Heath - thanks very much for taking up on the baton on this! In the spirit of healthy debate, we hope you won't mind us offering this by way of riposte...

    Is this really a review of the review? You only actually mention one of the points John made: his objection to the Rework suggestion that all meetings are toxic. To which your reponse is that meetings are pointless 99% of the time, adding: "Sure, there are rare exceptions to this rule, but it is far from an “over-heated generalization” to say that meetings are toxic." Now I suspect lots of people would disagree that 99% of meetings are pointless. But even if you're right, and just 1% are worthwhile, surely that still makes it a generalisation to say that meetings are toxic?

    The rest of it just seems to be speculation about the reasons for John's business success based on what it says about him on the internet. Isn't that more of a personal hatchet job than a review of his review?!

    Filed under: ,
  • 03-29-2010 9:53 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    The 'review of the review' statement is just something I posted in this article's comments. The actual title of the blog post is: "Defending Rework: 37Signals' Latest Book Is Hardly Dangerous". The blog post is more in defense of 37Signals from John's review than a review of John's review itself. As for the 'meetings' example, I think the confusion comes from the book's section titled "Meetings Are Toxic". The title is a generalization \(as are most titles). If you actually read the chapter you will discover that they do not say "100% of all meetings are bad!". As a matter of fact, they explain that they themselves have meetings every once in a while. The point is that most meetings usually are unnecessary and the title brings this to your attention immediately. Many of John's statements seem to attack these generalizations as if they are definitive and 100%. But when you read the details you will see that is not the case. As for the 'personal hatchet job' I would just reply with it is no more a personal attack on him than what he dished out. Tit for tat. But John's a big boy and can take it. I know because not an hour after I posted my post he called me :). John seems like a pretty nice guy. We both talked for a while about our real life business experiences and how the book's suggestions did \(or did not) apply. We both agreed that much of Rework is broad and general \(remember, less is more). Its philosophies are meant to be debated. It has no strict rules but more guidelines. There will be times you will need to meet. And there will be times when you need to plan. The bold statements that rail against meetings and planning are meant to grab your attention and make you think – Do we really need to meet? Do I really need to make a 5 year business plan?

  • 03-30-2010 10:21 AM
    In reply to

    Re: RE: Books: Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

    Heath - glad to hear you two had a chat! And you're absolutely right that if statements like this help us question the way we do things, that's no bad thing...
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